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    #31
    Further to the discussion of ventilation on this thread I realise that no-one so far as I can see has mentioned drop down vents. These are essential both in practice and in law.

    Magnum Motorhomes calls them "gas drop vents" and supplies ones for a 51mm diameter cut-out in the floor. I have two in my Scudo campervan and suggest that larger vehicles should have more.

    I have added further comments on ventilation and related matters including drop down vents on the "Hello - Winter Wanderings" thread post 22.

    Paul.
    Seek to make a virtue of necessity.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Doblo7 View Post
      Jayjay: I have to roll up and put away the Duvalay or Duvalays (even more important if there are two) in order to put the double dinette seating arrangement I have, to best use in the daytime and when travelling.

      Paul.
      Oh what a pain that must be, Paul. When the Duvalays came out, I thought they were a very good idea, until people started reporting on the problem of storing them... I would just dump the Duvaley altogether and go with an ordinary sleeping bag in that case. I do have a piece of egg box foam on the bed I sleep on, but it's underneath a fitted cover and does get sat on during the day. It's comfortable as well!

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        #33
        Thanks Jayjay: but I would still have to put away a sleeping bag and I don't see much difference. The Duvalay if it works with an underlay mattress or something similar and rollable uppable and get into the lockerable is best because it is easier to get into, and I can vary the weight of the duvet which is vital for me, all the way from nothing to 13.5 tog via 4.5 tog and 7.5 tog. And one can of course put some of these in together and I have done. So the flexibility is vital for me. Also the washability. I had a really good hiking sleeping bag which my daughter took a liking to and I haven't seen it (or needed it) since. I never washed it and I don't suppose she has.

        Paul.
        Seek to make a virtue of necessity.

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          #34
          A quick, and very rough, calculation suggested to us that the cost of retrofitting an Eberspacher to our newly ordered van equates to about 1500 days EHU, so we decided to see how we get on without it. We have EHU more often than not, and pretty much always in the colder months, so will make-do with our oil-filled radiator.

          ​We have, on just two or three very cold nights over the years, left it on a low setting overnight to no ill-effect. I get the impression above that there's a misconception that an oil-filled radiator burns the oil. It doesn't, the oil is sealed inside and is just the medium which heats up and conducts the heat in the same way the liquid does in domestic central heating radiators. So condensation is not an issue, neither is CO.

          We suspect that the new van, with its solid walls, will be warmer than the Lo with its fabric panels.

          OK, we'll have to use gas rather than our electric kettle (yes, we carry both) for a brew if we want to warm up the van, but it still seems a good trade-off, especially with Gaslow.

          Geoff

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            #35
            The advantages of not having such a heater is that you now have more storage. They are expensive to run and very noisy, though effective for short blasts of heat. Maybe of use if you are parked somewhere without EHU. Otherwise, why bother?

            From choice we would prefer NOT to have such heating anyway! However, our Mezan does have an equivalent, which we NEVER use.
            Carpe diem! :)

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              #36
              I am just fitting the propex taken from our old doblo to the new. From our point of view the economics makes great sense. We go away all year and never use campsites because we have heating and self sufficient electricity production. We have stopped carrying a hookup cable as it is not needed.
              The propex cost us 200 pounds, we must easily get that back every winter trip by not paying campsite fees.

              Comment


                #37
                I'm with Derek here - hookups drive me up the wall and reliance on them is disappointing. But to do without, of course, you have to plan and even build in advance. I've never done it any other way.

                Paul.
                Seek to make a virtue of necessity.

                Comment


                  #38
                  In response to Artoo (post 34) I should have made clear that I distinguish between oil-filled appliances (which require hookups) and oil burning ones which produce moisture in large quantities. I have nothing against oil filled appliances but as you will have gathered I'm against hookups. I fitted one in my van in case I wanted to sell, and I know that most people want at least the option, but I hope never to use it. Like everything else, a hookup needs to be designed in from the start. I have friendly rear doors which permit cables to be passed underneath even with the doors closed (due to a very thick rubber seal) so I have a hidden internal stealth hookuppertunity (which I hope never to use, as said).

                  Paul.
                  Seek to make a virtue of necessity.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Oh don't get me wrong NomadSue , we've quite liked having the Eberspacher in our current van.

                    It's been nice to be able to reach up on a cold morning and turn it on for a 5 minute blast before exiting the sleeping bag, or even to give the temperature a bit of a boost when it's got chilly. But after 5 minutes it gets excessively warm and such use we have made would never have justified the extra cost had it not been part of the package when we bought the van.

                    No doubt my clumsy fingers, but the estimate of days EHU above acquired an extra zero! Can't edit it now but it should say 150 days.

                    Each to their own, but "wilding" just doesn't appeal to us. So far the only times we've camped elsewhere than on sites has been at music festivals, plus a couple of occasions in a boatyard when sailing with friends. We'd be prepared to "wild" for a night or two if we really wanted to be in a particular place and there was no nearby site (a spot in the north of Unst springs to mind!), but generally we're "softy" campers.

                    Geoff

                    Comment


                      #40
                      All the heating appliances I have come across have either a thermostat (Propex, Eberspacher, Webasto) or temperature settings (Refleks). I referred to a nice blast of heat from my Propex from choice, but it is fully adjustable. I see no reason why any van so fitted should get too hot.

                      I'm off to the dentist and will not look things up - but the costs claimed for fitting these heaters seem over the top to me. Perhaps they include labour and overheads on that labour?

                      I have looked up Propex, the smaller one which should suit most: £500 plus bits and pieces. Compare that with paying double for your site fees with hookups and the equipment you require then??

                      I choose the flexibility every time. The cost of gas or diesel used in built-in heaters is very small and fitted properly they don't take up any space (oil filled do-das plus the cable, do).

                      Paul.
                      Last edited by Doblo7; 11-10-2018, 01:45 PM.
                      Seek to make a virtue of necessity.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Artoo0 yes each to their own. We are nearly always aiming at remote places like your spot in Northern Unst. As an aside when we were there we took our tent and camped on the last flat bit of Unst close to Muckle Flugga so we could be the northernmost British inhabitants for a night.
                        Campsites require a different sort of camper, awnings and such , and wild camping alternatively: gas heaters, solar panels, compressor fridges (as the shops are a long way away .
                        The economics again are dependant on how much you are away. Our underslung lpg tank will be paid for quickly as we are away a lot and heating a lot in winter, but if we were only away only say 4 weeks a year probably not. Our propex was reduced old stock and there were costs in 8mm copper. diy again makes economics different. I expect Doblo7 s figures are more generally useful.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Doblo7 View Post
                          All the heating appliances I have come across have either a thermostat (Propex, Eberspacher, Webasto) or temperature settings (Refleks). I referred to a nice blast of heat from my Propex from choice, but it is fully adjustable. I see no reason why any van so fitted should get too hot.

                          I'm off to the dentist and will not look things up - but the costs claimed for fitting these heaters seem over the top to me. Perhaps they include labour and overheads on that labour?

                          I have looked up Propex, the smaller one which should suit most: £500 plus bits and pieces. Compare that with paying double for your site fees with hookups and the equipment you require then??

                          I choose the flexibility every time. The cost of gas or diesel used in built-in heaters is very small and fitted properly they don't take up any space (oil filled do-das plus the cable, do).

                          Paul.
                          My comment re the van getting excessively hot was intended as a compliment to the Eberspacher's efficiency, not a complaint Paul, and I agree that the quantity of diesel used is small. Sue keeps a spreadsheet tracking our fuel consumption, and it's difficult to see any appreciable difference whether we've used the Eberspacher or not.

                          The cost of a hook-up usually adds around a fiver, which is roughly a quarter on the site fees (maybe a third on the cheaper sites), and most of our stays this year have been on CMC sites which include EHU in the fee anyway, as did a couple of independents we used.

                          My lack of DIY skills is legendary, even with the aid of Haynes manuals, YouTube videos or knowledgeable people standing over me. I'm a klutz, so it would have to be somewhat chilly in the infernal regions before the thought of self-fitting crossed my mind. Haven't got the skills, the time or, least of all, the inclination.

                          As I said before, "Each to their own". We're much more comfortable with the security of being on a site, to have showers, loos and washups provided and happy to pay for them (it's still much cheaper than hotels and Sue has another spreadsheet to prove it!).

                          Others prefer differently, so Vive la différence!
                          Geoff

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