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an electric Nissan nv200 camper conversion met ontop of the col d'Izeran

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    an electric Nissan nv200 camper conversion met ontop of the col d'Izeran

    I have never met and had a drive in an electric vehicle before let alone a camper!
    The young couple had driven from Fribourg Germany to the col d Iseran in the french alps averaging 130k between recharges, from 20% to 80% can be charged in an hour at a fast service recharge or overnight and rest day at 6amp on a campsite. A battery percent gives 2 kilometers normally but the 15kilometer, 1000m climb to the col took 21% out of the battery. They expected to recoup some of that coasting down the other side. They had a german lifting roof bed conversion 3 belted seats, bikes on the back and diy storage across the back doors (plastic boxes 3 or 4 high on drawer runners in a ply frame), and a 35 litre compressor cool box lashed to points on the floor, 130 watt solar on the roof.
    I met them when they peered through our tinted windows thinking our car was unoccupied.
    We are sleeping at 2800m and altitude training for our tour of mont blanc run

    #2
    WOW that really was a topical meeting - especially in view of CyberCynth post https://community.smallmotorhome.co....e-nv200-evalia
    also the responces of the "naysayers" Thank you Derek

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by kernowjon View Post
      WOW that really was a topical meeting - especially in view of CyberCynth post https://community.smallmotorhome.co....e-nv200-evalia
      also the responces of the "naysayers" Thank you Derek
      Yes, thank you indeed Derekoak ! What an enlightening post.
      Cynthia

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for the link Jon and Cynthia. I have now read it all.
        The couple with the electric nissan were probably richer than us relatively impoverished uk pensioners on less than state pension, they did not seem to have a means to cook or a sink so they must eat cold or eat out. However, our camper is not finished and neither is theirs, they said it was a first trip to see what they needed.
        plugging their car into misted's link on the environment credentials , driving their car would be about 2/3 the co2 of a ordinary car but I suspect a small nissan ev is better than average and if compared to an average motor home would be better in comparison still.
        Again on the relative build costs they would be on the right side and again their EV is small and light and compared to the average motorhome they would win hands down!
        The average electric vehicle will include all sorts of hybrids which as they have more than one engine will pull the EV average worse.
        It is not impossible to build more solar and wind and add more charge points as EV demand increases. It will obviously happen. Sensible Governments will see the problem and respond.
        Public transport and electric and non electric Bicycles would be a greener solution still. Back to bicycle camping touring perhaps?

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          #5
          The figures quoted are Kilometers and this sounds good till converted to miles. Average 80 miles between charges - a max of maybe 120 miles. Not really practical. When we can get over 250 miles range, maybe I'll be interested. I still think that hydrogen fuel cells is a far better way to go.. minutes instead of hours to fill up and the exhaust is water vapour.
          Still crazy after all these beers.

          Comment


            #6
            I also thought wow! Derek. Thanks for posting! 80-120 miles between charges sounds good to me.

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              #7
              I've just come back from Tesco and they have installed electric charging points,

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                #8
                Originally posted by JazziJ View Post
                I've just come back from Tesco and they have installed electric charging points,
                What happens next is the "I'm not disabled but I don't mind using the disabled car parking spaces" brigade with petrol / diesel cars will be using the electric charging car park areas. There has been a term for these people for at least four years now. Electroblockers, I think it is. I encountered one at a motorway service station. A regular car decided that as the electric charging place was empty and nearer to the McDonalds entrance he would use it. So I just parked my electric car behind his and left it there for a sufficiently long time for him to get the message and make him late for wherever he was going. That is just one of the many inconveniences you will find when you get an electric vehicle.
                If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. Mark ch3 v24

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Grumblewagon View Post
                  The figures quoted are Kilometers and this sounds good till converted to miles. Average 80 miles between charges - a max of maybe 120 miles. Not really practical. When we can get over 250 miles range, maybe I'll be interested. I still think that hydrogen fuel cells is a far better way to go.. minutes instead of hours to fill up and the exhaust is water vapour.
                  I do not know enough about hydrogen fuel cell systems. How far between refills?,
                  is there greater explosion risk than petrol say? Thinking Hindenberg. Hydrogen will have to be produced from renewable electric anyway. One wonders about the conversion efficiency although you could make it at night and when the wind blows, and store it in gasometers.
                  there is virtually no hydro infrastructure. Until there is it is a none starter. Electric fast charge gets from 20% to 80% in an hour or less . The people I met show it can be done. It should get easier.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You might enjoy reading this article:
                    Hyundai: Plug-in electric cars are ‘quick fix’ but hydrogen must be part of future
                    https://www.driving.co.uk/news/featu...t-part-future/

                    There are also links to related articles particularly the Honda clarity which has been available for some years in California where there are “sufficient” hydrogen filling stations.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Misted thanks for that link. I must say I would trust even an obviously biased Elon Musk over anything Jeremy Clarkson says, but hydrogen does sound better for long distance camper van journeys. Will it be a betamax v VHS situation? We would need the hydro infrastructure or we would need a hydro/plug in electric hybrid.
                      At the moment I am guessing that hydrogen is produced from fractionating oil as 50% or more of electricity is. A lot of it is about relative efficiency of conversion from renewable electric. Musk says electric wins there, so hydrogen will by definition be more expensive.
                      On another topic central heating of houses will need to change from fossil gas to something else and hydrogen could be delivered down the existing gas network. But I guess the efficiency of expensively produced hydrogen just to burn to heat would be so bad that electricity to power home heat pumps would be the way there. Fuel cells would not help at home.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        A couple of points.. I would think that hydrogen is much safer than petrol. If you spill petrol, it spreads out and if lit, fire will spread. Hydrogen on the other hand will quickly diffuse into the air. While hydrogen can be produced by electrolysis, I believe it is produced chemically on an industrial scale. Safety? people often quote the Hindenburg, but nobody seems to say "Titanic" when they go on a cruise! Just how safe was air travel at the time when the Hindenburg crashed? Things have moved on a lot since then.

                        Charging time? Let's take a vehicle with a 50kw battery and requiring an 80% charge ie 40kw. in an hour ? That would mean some pretty heavy charging. And wow around 100 miles range. So, you drive for two hours and then need an hour to charge - providing you can find a vacant charger. I don't mind waiting 5 mins to fill up with diesel, but I don't want to have to queue for an hour and then another hour charging to get another 100 miles.

                        I'm not opposed to electric vehicles, but they're still not practical. Maybe another 10 years - but by then l might be thinking of giving up driving.

                        Still crazy after all these beers.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Derekoak Totally agree that Jeremy Clarkson would not satisfy my criteria for the post of adviser, he shares too many character traits with B. Johnson and The Donald.
                          However, the byline on that article was Will Dron. Dron is an unusual surname could he be related to Tony Dron, racing driver and author, who you might remember?
                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Dron

                          I agree with Grumblewagon’s post #12. If you watch the film of the Hindenburg it burns rather than explodes. I read that hydrogen has a colourless flame and the visible flames are from the covering of the airship.
                          I am sure that present electric cars on offer have a place and that they will continue to develop, only the more expensive would suit my motoring needs. 80% charge in an hour would not work well with a trip up the motorway to Keswick. The trip would become 7 hours instead of 4. A PHEV would suit me better if I could afford one.

                          There is a potential charging network via existing petrol stations. We just need some retailers to start the ball rolling.

                          I suspect that the current oil producing nations could afford to set up industrial scale plants where solar power splits water into hydrogen and oxygen. This would provide them with a new income stream to replace dwindling oil reserves.
                          I do wonder whether this sort of enterprise might also help to reduce global warming, not just by replacement of fossil fuels but by absorbing solar radiation in arid areas where heat re-radiates from the ground. Could shaded areas below solar farms support new plant growth?

                          Housing is a completely different question. All new houses were to be zero carbon from 2016 but the proposed regulation was dropped by the Treasury in July 2015. Existing stock can be upgraded with insulation, heat recovery from ventilation, solar power, heat pumps, district heating from waste incineration. waste heat recovery from industry etc. There is a lot that could be done even with Georgian terraced housing.

                          There are already houses which require no additional heat input beyond the heat gains from everyday living activities.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Grumblewagon View Post
                            A couple of points.. I would think that hydrogen is much safer than petrol. If you spill petrol, it spreads out and if lit, fire will spread. Hydrogen on the other hand will quickly diffuse into the air. While hydrogen can be produced by electrolysis, I believe it is produced chemically on an industrial scale. Safety? people often quote the Hindenburg, but nobody seems to say "Titanic" when they go on a cruise! Just how safe was air travel at the time when the Hindenburg crashed? Things have moved on a lot since then.

                            Charging time? Let's take a vehicle with a 50kw battery and requiring an 80% charge ie 40kw. in an hour ? That would mean some pretty heavy charging. And wow around 100 miles range. So, you drive for two hours and then need an hour to charge - providing you can find a vacant charger. I don't mind waiting 5 mins to fill up with diesel, but I don't want to have to queue for an hour and then another hour charging to get another 100 miles.

                            I'm not opposed to electric vehicles, but they're still not practical. Maybe another 10 years - but by then l might be thinking of giving up driving.
                            I do not know for sure but the hindenberg had hydrogen at about atmospheric pressure. In a hydro car the hydro in a small tank must be at massive pressure. You cannot liquify hydrogen by pressure at ambient temperature. That is why I thunk hydrogen is an expolsion risk. Maybe there is some clever trick but still the pressures must be high. There is a lot less energy in burning a hydrogen molecule than an lpg or petrol and molecule. Chemical production of hydrogen on an industrial scale is just another way to take oil and break it up for use. In that case leaving a lot of carbon for other use. Diesel at the moment! That does not help. Fossil fuel has to be left in the ground.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Derekoak , apologies for not framing my post more clearly. Much of what you say in response to Grumblewagon’s post is correct.
                              • I have no solid evidence of the pressure of hydrogen in the Hindenberg’s gas bags but logically it should be at as low a pressure as possible whilst meeting whatever design criteria apply as the hydrogen needs to be uncompressed to keep the weight of the hydrogen as low as possible.
                              • The pressure vessel fuel tanks are at high pressure but they are very strong and resistant to damage. However, if the tank were to be pierced the hydrogen at high pressure escapes and dissipates very quickly upwards into the atmosphere. This is much less dangerous than petrol or LPG which being heavier than air lies on the surface evaporating slowly.
                              • There is a lot less energy in burning hydrogen than lpg or petrol but this makes it safer, as you say less heat is released from burning hydrogen. Of course that does not make hydrogen a completely safe risk free fuel. It needs to be handled with care with safety procedures similar to those applied to handling LPG.
                              • Production of Hydrogen using solar power: I should have made it clear that I was suggesting electrolysis using abundant DC electricity generated by solar panel arrays which the OPEC members in the middle east could easily afford.
                              • I agree that fossil fuel extraction and use should be restricted to a minimum.
                              • Hydrogen seems to raise fears by association with the hydrogen bomb, aka the H Bomb, which is a thermonuclear weapon not yet used in anger but first tested in May 1956 in the Bikini Atoll in the Pacific by those “pacifists” in the USofA. It has absolutely no connection with burning hydrogen.
                              • And, of course the FCV, Fuel Cell Vehicle does not burn the hydrogen. It “converts chemical potential energy (energy stored in molecular bonds) into electrical energy. A PEM (Proton Exchange Membrane) cell uses hydrogen gas (H2) and oxygen gas (O2) as fuel. The products of the reaction in the cell are water, electricity, and heat”.

                              Electrolysis Wiki, how it works, first used to decompose water into hydrogen and oxygen in 1800;
                              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis

                              Here is a link to a UK builder of a small Hydrogen Fuel Cell car in Llandrindod Wells which can go 300 miles on 1.5kg of hydrogen. Someone who I believe deserves government financial support:
                              https://www.riversimple.com/

                              How dangerous is hydrogen fuel?:
                              https://hydrogen.wsu.edu/2017/03/17/...hydrogen-fuel/


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