R20 Belingo engines

[romacamper]

Hi,
new to this site and it looks very useful. Had C15 hylo for 10 years. Suffering from small campervan deprevation, we're looking at R20s. Now these have been made with 4 engines, 1.9, 2ltr turbo, 1.6 90bhp and currently 1.6 75bhp. What advice can forum members give about which engine is best, and especially most reliable. Our 1.7 c15 never missed a beat.

Cheers,
Romacamper

[peterholden]

R20s will all be 1.6 diesels. The previous model Outlooks (the same shape) come in 1.9 non turbo, 2.0 and 1.6 turbo.

We have the 1.9 (1868cc) non turbo in our Romahome, we also have a Berlingo car with the same engine that has done over 160000 miles and uses no oil, does well over 40mpg (our Romahome does about 40mpg), is very easy and cheap to service. This engine is a development of the C15 engine.

A friend who is a mechanic and has much experience of the PSA engines recons that high mileage services on the 2.0 and 1.6 can be very expensive and faults on the high pressure diesel injection system can be terminal because of the costs but he is talking about cars.

The 1.9 plods but will cruise at 70 on the motorway, we have done more in France when having to return home urgently.

The name changed from Outlook to R20 in about 2008 but many people describe Romahomes incorrectly when selling. There was a C15 on Ebay being sold by a dealer who called it a Romahome R30.

Peter

[karenw]

I have the 2l HDi and have no complaints although I've only had it 2 months. So far, fuel economy readings are 34, 49 and 50.34 mpg but I need more before I can give a reliable average.

The newer models are now all 1.6HDi but I heard on the grapevine that there is a problem with with some of the earlier ones, possibly 2006/7??) produced over an 18month period - something to do with the oil and turbo (I have only sketchy details but it would be worth googling this.

My husband changed his car for a 1.6HDi Berlingo 2 weeks ago and is very pleased with it so far.

I also test-drove a 2002 1.9 van without the turbo. It was sluggish to start and warm up but then ran well.

Both of our Berlingos are still new to us so we're still adjusting and learning but so far, we're pleased with them. If I'd had the choice, I'd have preferred a 1.6 myself - but that wasn't an option on my 2005 model.

[romacamper]

Thanks very much Karen and Peter for your informative advice. Sounds like 1.9 has similar performance to our old c15 but equally reliable. Heard similar about some 1.6 engines having major failures due to oilways blocking up - perhaps later ones are ok. gather engine is widely used, in Focus, minis, peugeots and citreons, Mazda and BMWs since it was a joint Ford and PSA design. Hmm.....tempting to look for an older Outlook perhaps as "the mixture as we had before"? More decisions..

Thanks,
Bill

[peterfowden]

[QUOTE=peterholden;37318]R20s will all be 1.6 diesels. The previous model Outlooks (the same shape) come in 1.9 non turbo, 2.0 and 1.6 turbo.

We have the 1.9 (1868cc) non turbo in our Romahome, we also have a Berlingo car with the same engine that has done over 160000 miles and uses no oil, does well over 40mpg (our Romahome does about 40mpg), is very easy and cheap to service. This engine is a development of the C15 engine.

A friend who is a mechanic and has much experience of the PSA engines recons that high mileage services on the 2.0 and 1.6 can be very expensive and faults on the high pressure diesel injection system can be terminal because of the costs but he is talking about cars.

The 1.9 plods but will cruise at 70 on the motorway, we have done more in France when having to return home urgently.

Hi Peter,
how do you manage to use the same engine in both your Romahome and Berlingo, how long does it take to swap (sorry couldn't help saying that, funny how you can make our languge mean diferent things with the same words)
We had a 1769cc xud engine with 139000 on the clock ran very nice, economical cruised at 65 and our 1905cc is the same . The more electronics engines have the more the repair costs are in the long run. You might get better performance but it will cost in the end

[peterholden]

Hi Peter

I am an expert at swapping engines. I used to have a Citroen Dyane and the engine was dead easy to get out - a one man job in less than an hour without rushing.

Seriously the XUD engine (1769 and 1905 versions) were the best that PSA ever made, they did not improve it when they made the 1868 DW8 engine which is basically the 1905 XUD with emissions equipment strangling it. I have no doubt of the long lasting of the DW8 engine but it could just do with a little bit more poke. The XUDs were made in turbo version but you cannot just bolt a turbo on because they used stronger con rods and pistons, but if you could find a complete turbo engine it would be almost a straight swap well within the capabilities of an amateur mechanic. The 1769cc engine was fitted in the Citroen BX and both were fitted in various Peugeot saloons and hatchbacks from 205 upwards.

back in the days when we had a caravan we were on a campsite near Calais and there were two Duos near each other but not together. One had had a turbo fitted by TB turbos of Lancaster and the other had a 2.2 PSA diesel complete with autobox but I could not get any details because the chap had bought it like that.

Peter

[Ian.C.S]

One of my previous motorhomes,not a roma,had a turbo fitted by TB lancaster,
it was totally reliable and never gave a problem,just lots of power.

Ian

[Caz]

Don't know if it helps but I used to have a 2002 Citroen car with the 2.0 Hdi engine and the engine was fine - services cost no more than on my little 2008 Seat with a 1.4 diesel engine at much lower mileage, and it went like a rocket when I wanted it to.

The downfall was the auto gearbox which packed up at about 124K so I had to get rid.

[peterfowden]

Don't know if it helps but I used to have a 2002 Citroen car with the 2.0 Hdi engine and the engine was fine - services cost no more than on my little 2008 Seat with a 1.4 diesel engine at much lower mileage, and it went like a rocket when I wanted it to.

The downfall was the auto gearbox which packed up at about 124K so I had to get rid.

I think the general opinion so far is that the xud engines 1769 & 1905 & DW8 1868 are very reliable, economical and will do 100,000's if maintained.
The Hdi Engines are the same but with more zip (power) but when they do go wrong it will cost you more to get sorted.
Oh and nearly forgot ,if you need your engine swapped Peter's your man

[peterfowden]

TB Turbo's of Lancaster

I have tracked down a firm David Breaks of Kendal. Who with his father ran Tb Turbo's of Lancaster before selling it and it eventually went bust.
Not sure if David Breaks still does Turbo conversions on xud engines but it might be worth contacting them if anyone is intested in going down that line of power upgrade.

www.davidbreaks.co.uk/index.php/contact-us
Will contact them and let everyone know if they still fit turbo's to xud engines

[peterfowden]

XUD engines

Found a article on wikipedia about XUD engines was interesting especially the trick of bleeding the coolant system with a cut off plastic bottle in the expansion tank, to gain height and avoid airlocks. Otherwise the head gaskets can blow. You have been warned.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_XUD

[romacamper]

I think the general opinion so far is that the xud engines 1769 & 1905 & DW8 1868 are very reliable, economical and will do 100,000's if maintained.
The Hdi Engines are the same but with more zip (power) but when they do go wrong it will cost you more to get sorted.
Oh and nearly forgot ,if you need your engine swapped Peter's your man

As you say, Peter, that sums up people's experience of these engines very nicely. Think we are leaning more towards a Belingo based Romahome with the earlier engines rather than the 1.6 as a result of people's comments as proven reliability when you're camping a long way from home is a major factor!

Re Peter Holden's comment on the Citronn Dyane I believe that some of the first Citroen Visas back in 1969 had 2 cylinder air cooled engines as the Dyane was one model the new hatchback was replacing.

Back in 1988 the diesel Visa was one car on my car buying list but I bought an Austin Maestro instead.
In the early 1990s I worked with someone who had a diesel Visa, ran very well if I remember right, and the long travel suspension gave a comfortable ride. Didn't think then that we would have a C15 for 10 years converted into a motor caravan.
Must get another one....
Cheers
Bill

[peterfowden]

Hi Bill ,
you certainly got us talking about engines.
We had a F reg Romahome with the 1769cc xud engine only a couple of years ago. Kept it for 4 years and loved it drove 100's of miles at a time no problems. Very economical and even with 139000mls on the clock used no oil.
Have now upgraded to a berlingo Romahome with the 1905cc engine, which is just as good as the 1769 one but with a bit more power. The berlingo chassis is a massive improvement in comfort and driveability though and we would not go back to a C15 even though we loved it.
If your thinking of a berlingo van/car camper as opposed to a Romehome have you seen the easy fitted/ removed conversion by www.amdro.co.uk that still lets you use the car with 5 travelling seats. Its called a boot jump and fits kangoo,s berlingo's and doblo's about £1200 with cooker

[romacamper]

Hi Bill ,
you certainly got us talking about engines.
We had a F reg Romahome with the 1769cc xud engine only a couple of years ago. Kept it for 4 years and loved it drove 100's of miles at a time no problems. Very economical and even with 139000mls on the clock used no oil.
Have now upgraded to a berlingo Romahome with the 1905cc engine, which is just as good as the 1769 one but with a bit more power. The berlingo chassis is a massive improvement in comfort and driveability though and we would not go back to a C15 even though we loved it.
If your thinking of a berlingo van/car camper as opposed to a Romehome have you seen the easy fitted/ removed conversion by www.amdro.co.uk that still lets you use the car with 5 travelling seats. Its called a jump and fits kangoo,s berlingo's and doblo's about £1200 with cooker

Agree completely with that, Peter. C15 was great and we travelled 60000 miles in it in total, but having test driven Berlingo Romahomes they are a lot better to drive and with modern traffic...
C15 was ok on hills, we went up some very steep gradients in Norway with no trouble at all but the problem was on busy motorways etc. where van would do 65-70 ok on level, if you were baulked by say an artic going up a steep gradient and lost speed, then you just couldn't accelerate back up to a good cruising speed while still going up hill. A bit more mid range power would do the trick, I think. Don't need more top end power.

The xud engine just kept going, low oil consumption, cheap maintenance. We have a small diesel hatchback (one of the best sellers, American company, German design, Spanish built, Italian engine, British badge, c'mon ) which spent a lot of time being repaired under warrenty. This was mainly the cooling system, and what failed was the water cooled oil cooler, then water cooled exhaust gas recirculating valve, fittings that the xud engine just didn't have. If it's not there, it can't fail! (Oh, and the oil filter paper element turned itself inside out but that's another story!)


The Jump sounds a very interesting idea, could get us down to using just one vehicle as well, - I'll have a look, thanks for that.

Bill

[peterfowden]

No problem Bill.
Let us know what you end up getting and even better post a few pics.
We're a nosey bunch on here, well I am anyway.
Cheers