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  • gasgas
    started a topic EGR valves

    EGR valves

    I know this has been discussed as a side issue in other posts but today I had an email from a friend who is a real engineer. He has fitted several Mercedes diesel engines to other vans - one to a Ford Transit and another to a DAF Sherpa van so I respect his opinions and abilities. In addition he has converted a Ford Transit to hybrid electric power. I have just bought a 3 year old diesel Golf and asked him if he knew where the EGR valve is on it so I could see if I could block it off with a blanking plate.
    He has recently scrapped a diesel Mercedes and out of interest he took the EGR valve off to take a look. The car was coughing and spluttering and returning a terrible MPG. He included in his email to me:
    When I blanked the W210 EGR valve I could see that the manifold was choked to about half of it's correct diameter...
    I am worried that when they design diesel engines to meet the current emission standards, they are working with brand new engines, and then the EGR and DPF systems work just fine. However after a few years the whole air inlet system gets blocked up and the engine cannot work properly, as it was designed to. Therefore the pollution will increase to a level way beyond what it would have been without the EGR system in place. So my 'ever so 'umble opinion is that I would like to block off my EGR valve in order to preserve a reasonable level of emissions, and to keep my MPG above the 30 level. The alternative, if you leave your diesel engine as the manufacturers made it, you will be spending in excess of £1000 having the head and inlet manifold and EGR valve removed and cleaned out, just as we would have de-coked an engine in the 1960's.
    You can see photos of examples of blocked inlet manifolds if you look on ebay for 'EGR blanking plate'.
    I respect the fact that some in the forum regard the diesel particles as injurious to health, but surely the fact that the engine loses its efficiency in probably 50,000 miles will produce far more pollution than one without the EGR system. I think it is possible to completely remove the EGR valve, but you have to be a bit of an engineer to do that, and you have to re-program the computer as well so I have no intentions of doing that.

  • jondxxx
    replied
    This article may be relevant to this thread as it appears that NOx emissions may now be tested
    https://www.confused.com/on-the-road...letter27022018

    Leave a comment:


  • kernowjon
    replied
    There is JUSTICE (sometimes) BBC are reporting not only has she been arrested but she is being held in custody
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-43110194
    - reading between the lines she had a go at the police too.
    I hope she gets a fitting sentence like - Community Service - washing ambulances!
    Jon

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  • gasgas
    replied
    Strange how people think they own the road outside their house. I dared to stop outside the neighbour to my daughter's house to drop off my granddaughter. I just got out to open the passenger door to let her out and the neighbour came out of her house screaming at me to move my car. I politely told her that I was just stopping to drop off my granddaughter and that she does not own the road and anyone can park there all day if they wish to. I didn't wait around to listen to the response, I could hear it all the way down the road.

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  • kernowjon
    replied
    Originally posted by gasgas View Post
    , but I think that as drivers get to recognise why a car is doing that, they will get more tolerant!
    Thinks - money making opportunity! Make flashing banner LED signs for the back window saying 'computer error, limping to the garage'. They should be a legal requirement for every car to carry!.
    Andrew - I envisage you will be in mega production with the LED signs - then organise a petition on 38 degrees to make them a legal requirement (shame about BREXIT I am sure the French would have legislated)
    Tolerant I wonder after reading this story
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-43104314
    I cannot comment as I'd break every forum ruleJon

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  • gasgas
    replied
    Thanks jon, I have looked for a blanking plate for my Golf but it isn't any of those on that link. I have looked on ebay but haven't seen one there. Mine is a 2104 1.6 diesel, and I have looked for the EGR valve on the car so I could just make my own but I can't seem to identify where the valve is. I have done it on my 2017 Fiat Ducato camper, where the components are more readily identifiable. I made my own blanking plate for the Ducato, went for a drive and in about five miles it went into limp mode so I duly limped home. I then drilled a 10mm hole in the centre, refitted it and it now runs fine. By the way limping along at 10 to 20mph with a 35 ton truck polishing your rear bumper is not something I would want to do every day, but I think that as drivers get to recognise why a car is doing that, they will get more tolerant!
    Thinks - money making opportunity! Make flashing banner LED signs for the back window saying 'computer error, limping to the garage'. They should be a legal requirement for every car to carry!.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pandabloke
    replied
    Hi all.

    When I used to run Fiat Multiplas, many years ago (absolutely fabulous cars, if they still made them new now I'd be buying them), we used to get blocked EGR valves regularly. Mine went in to Fiat twice for cleaning, but almost as soon as I'd left the garage, the symptoms reappeared. Only when the EGR vale was replaced did everything go back to normal.

    I think what I am trying to say is that on a Multipla at least, it was very difficult to successfully clean an EGR valve, or for Fiat to manage it, anyway. It's odd too, cos I think my EGR valve was replaced at about 48,000 miles, but the second one was still going strong and trouble free at 125,000 miles when I sold the car. So it had covered over 70,000 miles. This seemed to be the case on Multiplas. The first EGR valve clogged early in life, but its replacement went on and on. I'm not sure if there was a design change or whatever, but blocked EGR valves on newish Multiplas was always a sore point in the club.

    Panda

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  • kernowjon
    replied
    Originally posted by gasgas View Post
    Myke- I think the EGR has to open and if it doesn't I think there is a sensor in there which sends a message to The Computer. If The Computer doesn't like it, it will go into Limp Mode.
    .
    Some of the plates on sale have aq small hole which it is claimed will "cheat" the computer.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MITSUBISHI...8x6jvCmOUBfEOg

    and here is one for your Golf
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-EGR-BL....c100705.m4780

    Jon
    Last edited by kernowjon; 17-02-2018, 03:31 PM.

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  • gasgas
    replied
    Myke- I think the EGR has to open and if it doesn't I think there is a sensor in there which sends a message to The Computer. If The Computer doesn't like it, it will go into Limp Mode.
    Presumably it opens under exhaust gas pressure - the more exhaust gases, the more it opens? Like an SU carb. So, like a company that sells cigarettes to smokers, it works by killing off its enabler.

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  • MYKE
    replied
    I cleaned mine out with white spirit. It was difficult to get into all the crooks and nannies and I'm not sure how good a job I did. There was a slight improvement in performance but not enough to be noticable. I think a good blathering with WD40 may be the best treatment. It's supposed to desolve more or less anything so I will have a go at that when the weather improves. Otherwise, it's the blanking plate.

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  • jondxxx
    replied
    In another video he cleans the EGR so in this case he must have decided that the valve was likely to be faulty rather than just dirty. I think that cleaning is probably the sort of messy job that garages don't like. If it doesn't work then it can be tricky getting the customer to pay for the wasted labour.
    ​​​​
    Last edited by jondxxx; 17-02-2018, 11:56 AM.

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  • gasgas
    replied
    That was interesting Johnnieboy. I was a bit surprised that they couldn't clean the valve though. I would have thought there is a decarboniser chemical that it could be soaked in. Specially as I think he said the EGR valve was ?was it a thousand dollars?. I have seen a selection of EGR valves on ebay for something around £130 ish which you could accept as part of the exhaust system and if it lasts 100,000 miles that isn't too bad. I did notice that he did a decarbonisation process after fitting the new one, so wonder why he couldn't have done that before. You can get spray cans of EGR cleaner I believe. It's a pity the video recordist didn't put a sock over the microphone so you could tell what the guy was saying. Some EGR blanking plates have small holes in them, and seeing this video sounds as if a blanking plate with a small hole will still open the valve but more slowly and so let less exhaust through.

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  • Johnnieboy
    replied
    Here's a youtube you might find interesting regarding EGR valves and engine performance, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Mo9aD1Ecw
    I only found it because I have the Hyundai load, but I guess it's a similar story with other Diesel engines.Personally I stay in a lower gear to work the engine if the vans not had a good run for a while.
    ps

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  • gasgas
    replied
    Thank you Derek and Jon, it sounds as if you have a decent knowledge of how the EGR works. I knew that Fiat don't use AdBlue to achieve Euro6, and it is one reason why I would prefer a Fiat over others, including Citroen and Peugeot which do need AdBlue. It might be the case that non-Fiat, and earlier systems will choke up the EGR and inlet manifold whereas the later ones won't. Time will tell. I see from Ebay that a typical price for a new EGR valve is a bit over £100 which is not in itself terrible, after all a silencer in the exhaust for a very ordinary car can cost that, and we don't baulk at that. The problem would probably be if a new EGR valve is needed then the inlet valves are probably bunged up as well. Thank you for your inputs, I don't think I will bother trying to fit a blanking plate to my Golf.

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  • kernowjon
    replied
    Originally posted by gasgas View Post
    Thanks jon, that is a nice summary. I am puzzled though as to how blanking off the Pajero when it is already going to fail would make a difference, the only thing I can think is that the EGR valve was actually faulty but the inlet system was not blocked.
    .
    What happens is when the EGR cokes up - it jams in the open position - the flap linking exhaust and inlet is fully open at all times. hen it is noy coked up it is closed at idle and slowly opens when you go to full throttle - there is a damper - so when you floor the GO pedal the flap remains closed for a period then opens slowly.

    The pre computerised system used 2 inputs - throttle connection - and vacume pipes.

    My practical knowledge was gained on the Pajero 2.8 and the Ford Transit and LDV 2.5 DI engines

    Jon

    Leave a comment:

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