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    Gas issue

    hope Andrew gasgas sees this and anyone else who knows about gas supply.
    In the demountable I have a gas pipe - a spur about 6 ft long supplying the fridge - there does not seem to be a gas tap to turn the spur off. As I am changing the fridge for a compressor this spur is redundant - I want to block it off permanently.
    I am thinking shoot silicone into the pipe where I have disconnected the fridge then crimp the end closed.
    I am not considering removing the pipe as the joint is almost inaccesible in the back of an L shaped locker - I would need to be a contortionist and ultra slim (which I am not) to access the joint - so it is a case of "leave well alone".
    Jon

    #2
    Don't silicone and crimp it, that won't seal it, trust me. For one thing, LPG pipes have a higher pressure in them than domestic gas pipes at home, and it is very seepy stuff. It will get through the silicone and the crimp. I have seen pipes crimped and soldered, but that is just a bodge and not to be relied on. The crimp won't stop the gas, and the solder can crack and let gas through.
    What you need to do is go to a plumbers merchant or B&Q and get a thing called a 'stop end'. That is basically a connector with a blanking plug on it. It will probably be 8mm or 10mm diameter. If you have a caliper, measure the outside diameter, which as I say will probably be 8mm or 10mm. This is the thing you want:
    https://www.diy.com/departments/plum...BQ.prd/gallery
    Don't get a plastic push-fit one, they are not suitable for gas. Get the brass one. If you don't know if it is 8mm or 10mm get one of each which will save a return trip!
    Sorry I don't know how to post an actual picture. You will also need either some PTFE tape to wrap round the thread or some gas thread sealing paste. Tighten it as tight as you can within reason, don't go all Gorilla at it or you will crush the copper pipe and once that happens it will never seal.
    When you have done that, turn the gas on and check there isn't a leak. You can, while you are at the plumbers, get a spray can, or bottle, of Gas Leak Detector (it doesn't cost a fortune) and use that - it blows bigger bubbles than you would believe, even if there is a small leak. If you don't want that expense make a solution of washing up liquid and brush it all over the joint. Bear in mind that washing up liquid contains a lot of salt so if you do use that, do wipe the whole thing down with a wet rag afterwards to wash the liquid off. The proper gas leak detector fluid doesn't have salt and you can just leave it once you have applied it.
    As an aside, using Gas Leak Detector on ALL your gas joints, with the gas turned on, does constitute a gas tightness test which is part of a gas service - but not all of it. If you buy a bottle or can of detector fluid you may as well go over all the joints while you are at it. Make sure when you do, that the gas is not only turned on at the bottle, but that there isn't a safety valve en route, as there are on new campers and caravans, that needs to be reset before gas will pass through to the appliances. You might see a green button on the gas 'pigtail' which is a safety stopper which pings out when the gas line is disconnected. This is so that you don't get gas hissing out all over the place if the gas pipe is fractured in a crash. So before doing the gas tightness test, make sure that a hob ring does light properly so you can be sure that the pipes are full of gas.

    I am a bit surprised that you don't have a separate gas service tap for the fridge, I thought they had been mandatory for many years. Anyway do the above and you will be OK. In any case even if there was a gas service tap for the fridge you should still blank off the pipe - those taps are not to be relied on.
    Andrew
    Do not worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will worry about itself.

    Comment


      #3
      gasgas Thank you for the prompt reply.
      I am not surprised about gas taps - the guy who fitted out the demountable did his own gas and electrics - so far as I can see the 12v system off the leisure battery has no fuses. So there is some work to do to that too but on electrics I know what i am doing.
      Jon

      Comment


        #4
        If he was that lax in doing the gas fittings, you had better check the manifold where the main gas supply splits off to feed other gas appliances. Or has he just taken one pipe from the bottle and used lots of Tee junctions from that pipe to each appliance? Check the gas tightness of every joint using the Gas Leak Detector fluid or spray. The advantage of the spray is that you can squirt it from a distance, for example if there is a joint at the back of a cupboard where you can't get your hand with a brush in.
        Do not worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will worry about itself.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by gasgas View Post
          If he was that lax in doing the gas fittings, you had better check the manifold where the main gas supply splits off to feed other gas appliances. Or has he just taken one pipe from the bottle and used lots of Tee junctions from that pipe to each appliance? Check the gas tightness of every joint using the Gas Leak Detector fluid or spray. The advantage of the spray is that you can squirt it from a distance, for example if there is a joint at the back of a cupboard where you can't get your hand with a brush in.
          Andrew - Thank you for your advice. As you have guessed there are 2 Tee junctions. The first spur is the feed to the fridge - the second divides between the hob and the heater.

          The heater is another issue - a Propex Red Light and no ignition the blower does work in fan mode! - There is no sound of purging etc - do I start taking covers off in situ to clean out spiders etc? Without demounting the Suntrekker I cannot access the heater exhausts or should I go over to diesel heater mounting it at the rear where the exhaust etc will be easily accessible. I have a few suspicions about the Propex as in a locker I found a second or spare(?) heater unit. I do have a brand new 2Kw Chinese diesel heater still in the box.

          I am thinking junk the present gas system fit a new gas pipe and either a 2 tap manifold for the heater and hob or a single tap feeding the hob.

          The present pipework is 6mm and finding a 6mm Stop End is virtually impossible even on Ebay!!!!!
          Jon

          Comment


            #6
            The one thing about older gas systems that many if not all owners and most engineers fail to acknowledge is the build up of enzymes within the pipes.
            Imagine a smoker, 20 cigarettes for 20 years.
            Now imagine the smokers veins and arteries and the reduction in the bore of those arteries due to the build up of fat or tar or whatever it may be.
            This is what happens to LPG systems. The stentching agent that is introduced to the LPG by the manufacturer solidifies as it passes through the pipes, particularly over unions that haven't been debured or at the bottom of vertical runs and on bends.
            Some people call these enzymes heavy ends or even dirty gas.
            I'm not suggesting that this is the issue with the propex (by the way if you can't hear it ticking (sparking) I'd be looking more at the electrical side than the gas) I'm merely pointing out another potential issue that may/may not be present.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by DANTAGE View Post
              The one thing about older gas systems that many if not all owners and most engineers fail to acknowledge is the build up of enzymes within the pipes.
              Imagine a smoker, 20 cigarettes for 20 years.
              Now imagine the smokers veins and arteries and the reduction in the bore of those arteries due to the build up of fat or tar or whatever it may be.
              This is what happens to LPG systems. The stentching agent that is introduced to the LPG by the manufacturer solidifies as it passes through the pipes, particularly over unions that haven't been debured or at the bottom of vertical runs and on bends.
              Some people call these enzymes heavy ends or even dirty gas.
              I'm not suggesting that this is the issue with the propex (by the way if you can't hear it ticking (sparking) I'd be looking more at the electrical side than the gas) I'm merely pointing out another potential issue that may/may not be present.
              Dantage, thanks for those thoughts I must admit I had never considered "odour enzemes"
              However according to ant spiders are a common problem - inside the Propex unit is a black and white disk connected to the fan until a sensor sees this spinning - the ignition cycle will not start. By my reading of past posts, in Ant's experience spiders are the major cause of the disk not functioning - their webs prevent movement!
              My added problem is the exhaust is into the space between the demountable and the side of the pick-up tub. So removing the Propex or blowing air through the exhaust are an issue without removing the demountable and lowering it onto a safe landing place.
              Jon

              Comment


                #8
                Spiders - I had one camper where the heater wouldn't work. It was one of the Carver ones, floor mounted, with the air intake under the floor and exhaust outlet in a cardboard hose running up the inside of the wardrobe. Underneath the van a spider had built its web in the air intake, preventing sufficient air from entering the burner. Spider was evicted, his pleas for clemency on the grounds of racial prejudice having been rejected. I built a fine gauze mesh over the air intake in a mushroom dome to allow sufficient air and the heater worked fine.
                My experience with the stuff Dantage is referring to is oil build up in upside-down U bends in LPG pipework. My take on it is that LPG originates from oil, which is present in a very fine vapour in the gas that comes out of the bottle. If there is an upside down U bend, like a lucky horse shoe the oil particles condense and form a pool which eventually blocks the pipe. On one occasion I had to remove this section of pipe and fit new pipe. It stinks to such an extent that if you get one drop of it on you, you then have to throw your clothes away, and people stand ten yards away for the next month. You just cannot get rid of it till your top layers of epidermis wear off.
                As for 6mm pipe, I have never heard of anything so ridiculous. One appliance wouldn't work off that, let alone three. Jon - what you should do is rip out all that stupid 6mm stuff and start again; starting from the gas bottle:
                An orange coloured pigtail rubber pipe, feeding
                A regulator, bulkhead mounted.
                Out of the regulator, a 10mm pipe to a 3 way manifold with a tap for each appliance - I am assuming fridge, heater, hob.
                From the manifold with taps take a 8mm or 10mm pipe to each appliance.

                You might well find that you have to buy a 20 metre roll of 10mm pipe in which case there is no harm in using the same 10mm pipe to each appliance. You will certainly be able to get all the connectors and elbows (90 degree bends) from somewhere like B&Q or Screwfix or your local plumbers. I am not at all surprised that you can't get 6mm fittings, that must have originated in a model toy shop. To make it all look nice you should also get a pipe bender for 10mm pipe - this should be pretty cheap, It is a small tool and eliminates a lot of solder or compression elbow bends. This in turn makes the job cheaper, and removes the possibility of leaks if you use soldered or compression elbows. I would steer clear of compression elbows on 10mm pipe or smaller, it is very prone to getting crushed. The joints with the ring of solder built in to them are easier to use, - you still need flux and wire wool to clean the copper. If you need to do a joint which will end up in the corner of a wooden cupboard, do the soldering outside of the cupboard and then feed the pipe into its final place.
                Best of luck, but I certainly wouldn't entertain trying to do anything with 6mm pipe. That must be brake pipe I reckon.
                Do not worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will worry about itself.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks Andrew, Only feeding 2 appliances - the gas fridge is coming out in favour of a 12v compressor (no running costs with solar panel). It is about 3 feet from gas locker to both hob and heater so I am replacing with 8mm pipe as I already have it and have ordered 8mm manifold with taps, reducers 8mm to 6mm to put on where the 6mm goes into heater and hob. I already have a couple of metres of 8mm pipe and some p clips.
                  Also a fuse box and earth busbar to fix electrics.
                  Jon

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Don't stay in the Black Forest !
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQqHCb16MNg
                    Do not worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will worry about itself.

                    Comment

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